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bring it 
Posts:15
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| 07/10/2008 8:21 PM |
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Me and a friend were talking about this today at lunch.. What is killing outlaw 10.5 racing? is it the extreme stuff, is it the competition reasoning, is it money, is it the purse or what?
Me and him looked at the situations, and seeing that a nitrous car can barely make it past semis anymore is one of the reasons i personally think.. I think the turbo cars, have advanced so much, that its making it so hard for the nitrous cars, that they have to run so far on the edge, that they dont want to hurt there motors every run just to try to stay in the race.. The cars are all heavy enough.. Do we take away some weight for the nitrous cars?
Lets here some of your alls opinions, on whats killing outlaw10.5 racing.. This class use to be huge,, its a dieing breed now..... |
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GMMMPWade
Posts:77
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| 07/11/2008 7:58 AM |
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I think it all comes back to the money! All outlaw 10.5 have become Pro Mod shows and the little guys can't afford to keep up. So now you have more limited street cars out there and stock suspension cars but if you take a look at that those numbers are going down also. It all falls back to whats it going to cost me to be competitive. |
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Russell Wade Rich
Dragstrip Operations Manager
South Georgia Motorsports Park |
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cutta_1
Posts:43
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| 07/11/2008 10:15 AM |
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Personally, I don't think at all that Outlaw 10.5 is dead. Its just that there aren't a lot of guys that can afford to travel, so they don't. Not to mention, with guys breaking parts all the time, there really is no need to rush getting things back together, especially with the summer track temps. Also, there are more races to choose from than ever before. Especially in states with lots of tracks, like Texas. You have KOTH, High Velocity Impact, and Clash of the Titans. Mix that in with Fun Ford, Texas Outlaw Racing Association, and Super Chevy and you've got lots of races to choose from. That's all aside from the local tracks scheduled Outlaw races. With all of that going on in most states, who really is going to get out and travel besides the big time guys that have the funds to do so. So in conclusion, too many races, allows racers to stay home, and closer to family, leaving no need to travel, except for really big historic events like the Shakedown, Vegas SSCN, Orlando, Drag Radial Championships, or Texas vs. The World. All of which are in October. And even some of these big race conflict with one another. |
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ROCCO
Posts:20
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| 07/11/2008 10:26 AM |
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| I will agree about car count,I remember 20 to 30 cars at a show in 10.5.Now that we have started racing the nitrous cars have fallen off.at the last three races we attended their were three nitrous cars at each.Maybe only two at Montgomery,and one of those will be turbo as soon as new car is finished.It takes the same money to run the 10.5 as does our automatic pro mod.But on average 10.5 payout is greater.In my opinion think weight will be the deciding factor but also remember what the cost would be for some of the nitrous cars to loose a few hundred pound,so do you hang weight on the turbos.Fuel costs is playing a factor as well.Dont want to see 10.5 fall out,some of the best racing anywere............PS got Rainwaters number in Valdasta. |
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Rainwater
Posts:222
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| 07/11/2008 11:02 AM |
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| I will give you my phone number if you need it. 205-368-4202 That will be the only number you will ever get. |
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www.rainwaterracing.com |
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ROCCO
Posts:20
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| 07/11/2008 12:30 PM |
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Ken,had to give the 02 seditives after you got us in Ala.The Bailbondsman crew is coming to Valdosta to win.Not going to mess with you in 6.0,Know you have that wraped up.
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ORSCA
Posts:1261
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| 07/11/2008 4:15 PM |
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I don't post on this subject to often and certainly not on any other board but since it's now on ORSCA I will.
I hear people say this is falling off or that is dying out. Let me put it in one nutshell for you.
TIMES ARE HARD DUDE
Racing is a sport in this level of the working man. Yes their are some real high rollers in this but as general no one here at this level of racing is doing it for a living. We have very few multi million aires very few high level stock brokers. Most are just very hard working guys and gals that work hard so they can play hard in racing. They all have Jobs or work for other companies. When the economy falls off so does everything else.
Golf resorts are showing a falling off of players each weekend.
Six Flags are running promotions of half price or buy one get one free.
WHY ? Because attendance is lower. WHY ? Because they aren't making as much money and the price of everything has doubled.
I don't think outlaw 10.5 is dying any more than top fuel Pro stock, Freakin golfing or anything else it takes money to do.
Most people with any sence about them when times are hard have to make a choice of either pay your mortgage feed your kids or go racing or golfing. Most choose the mortgage and their Kids. Racing is a high cost sport . The faster you go the higher the cost. Racers are picking and choosing which races they can attend and many are staying real close to home to cut the cost so they can still race. Proof of this is last year we saw cars from all over the country. ORSCA racers were traveling all over the country to race. That just isn't happening this year all you have to do is look at who is racing where and your question will be answered. Thus the reason orsca pulled itself as close to it's core of racers and tried to cut their cost of travel also.
Not only is this effecting the racers but it also is having an effect on fans. I get more calls now from fans a few days before a race than I ever did before asking are you sure the race will run we cant afford to travel and not get to see a race.
Want to know the real main reason for falling off in all forms of hobbies?
LOOK AT YOUR POWER BILL THIS MONTH
LOOK AT YOUR GROCERY BILL FOR LAST MONTH
LOOK AT YOUR GAS CREDIT CARD BILL THIS MONTH
LAST BUT NOT LEAST NOW
COMPARE THEM TO YOUR LAST WEEK PAY CHECK
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The person who says it cannot be done should not interrupt
the person doing it." |
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t berry
Posts:477
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| 07/11/2008 4:28 PM |
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| What pay check my wife gets it before i do |
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www.berrymotorsports.net
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jpaulk
Posts:384
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| 07/11/2008 4:34 PM |
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| I dont get no check either Todd.. When you gonna have the lil black killa out again??? |
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Car Killer !!!!!!!! |
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ORSCA
Posts:1261
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| 07/11/2008 4:53 PM |
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I know that can't be true. You don't get a check for laying around the pool and playing on the message boards all day long.
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The person who says it cannot be done should not interrupt
the person doing it." |
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t berry
Posts:477
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| 07/11/2008 5:41 PM |
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| I hope it is ready next week they like some wiring and building the new intake then it's time to see if we can keep up with that truck. |
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www.berrymotorsports.net
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tim lewis
Posts:253
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| 07/12/2008 4:01 PM |
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| 10.5 up north has alot of new cars coming out and a few new ones being built. cecil county has 10.5 once a month and gets 10 or more cars every month but most of them guys only drive 1-3 hours max. times are hard for the class with the cost of building a car and keeping it running but it hasent hurt the drag radial guys as much yet since we get 16-25 cars for the 8 car fields around here. |
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jpaulk
Posts:384
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| 07/13/2008 1:01 AM |
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| Truck is getting freshend up hope you can make it p.c.!!!! |
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Car Killer !!!!!!!! |
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Maxxxed Out
Posts:170
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| 07/14/2008 8:45 AM |
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| I agree with the price of fuel up over a dollar a gallon from last year, it costs most outlaw guys another $200-$500 just to get to and from the race track. Not only that, but after you buy groceries that have gone up, its hard to afford to go racing. Johnny, I think you need to open to forum on Turbo VS Nitrous up so we can get peoples ideas about how to make it fair. I hear of alot of nitrous guys that dont come because they think they are beat before they get there. But the same guys when they were killing the turbos didnt do anything to help the turbo guys out. But I agree, something has to be done to get the Nitrous guys back to the track. Give them a weight break or whatever you have to do to get them there. |
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BLIND MULE
Posts:115
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| 07/14/2008 10:22 PM |
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Remember Billy Glidden and everybody told him to step up or shut up well looks like some stepping up is in order!  |
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ORSCA
Posts:1261
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| 07/15/2008 10:02 AM |
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| Their has been many sleepless nights on this subject already. Every time you think you might be close to an idea on what may help in this turbo VS nitrous deal all you need to do is just think a little further into the future and you can come up with 10 more reason why they might not work.
ORSCA has to not only be able to look into the future we have to stay focused on what we have at the present and what it has done in the past.
Many are quick with ideas on this like just drop the weight and it will fix all the problems. This is completely wrong. The problem with just a weight drop is this. These cars are specificly built to weight this. Many will not be able to drop weight without a huge cost. ORSCA would probably have to change its rules on the way these cars are built to even make it worth while taking weight off.
The question we have to ask ourselves is if nitrous cars did weigh less who would we get anyway. Some one speak up and let us know if these cars could weigh 2900 who would be coming that isnt there now?
We as an organization have to make moves for the current members we have already first those are who we will consider their wishes the most.
Their is no reason to make moves for people that may or may not come without making moves to try and help racers that are with us currently. Its like buying feed for unicorns that don't excist and letting all the horses starve.
With that said here will be one move orsca will make now to try and help the masses instead of the chosen few.
Starting in VALDOSTA we will move 2000 dollars of the winning purse in outlaw 10.5 further back in the field. This will atleast spread the money further through our cars to try and off set the cost of racing for all.
We are looking at ways to offset the money it takes to race first before we lok at anything else. This will bring orsca more racers than any rule change we could ever make |
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The person who says it cannot be done should not interrupt
the person doing it." |
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Maxxxed Out
Posts:170
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| 07/15/2008 12:15 PM |
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| There were 2 nitrous entries in Outlaw in Montgomery. Last year there were 5 or 6 AT LEAST at every race. I dont think the money is why people dont come honestly. How many outlaw guys actually broke even or made money last year? I would bet on probably zero. Maybe one or two that won alot of big money races, but you cant always count on winning them. There are some nitrous cars that should be at these races supporting ORSCA that are not coming for one reason or another. Money, Turbos too fast, Lag time between rounds, dont like our parties, whatever the reason is, its effecting the organization as a whole. Im not saying weight will help, but I know most nitrous cars can get lighter than 3000 lbs. Adding weight to a turbo car wont help you in my opinion. I bring this quote from the great "Big Sexy".....Picture a bulldozer running across the field with the blade up. Its moving, but there is no smoke, and the engine is not working hard. Now picture that same bulldozer with the blade down rolling dirt......turbos work harder, boost increases, and she starts workin......so the weight on a turbo is not the answer. However, how many nitrous cars can weight 2900, and would, and would show up? No more than come now. How about 2800? Probably no more than show up now. Whatever the case may be, it needs to be fixed, and get this thing back the way it used to be. |
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Scott
Posts:254
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| 07/15/2008 1:37 PM |
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Posted By ORSCA on 07/15/2008 10:02 AM
Starting in VALDOSTA we will move 2000 dollars of the winning purse in outlaw 10.5 further back in the field. This will atleast spread the money further through our cars to try and off set the cost of racing for all. We are looking at ways to offset the money it takes to race first before we lok at anything else. This will bring orsca more racers than any rule change we could ever make
Johnny, I for one can attest that it will help, especially since we are only running 16 car fields now. I know we don't mind paying the price if we are going to race but the chance of making the field and no pay coupled with the possiblity of missing the field is the double whammy of death for us.
There have been times when we didn't have a chance at winning the race because of problems with the car and we basically came for a test session and to participate but the before mention items have cut a lot of that out.
I personally think it is the right thing even if counts were not down. Support those that support you; how hard is that? |
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Maxxxed Out
Posts:170
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| 07/15/2008 2:45 PM |
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| I say all turbo cars other than yellow 69 camaros should be limited to a single 44mm turbo, mounted in the back of the car. All Nitrous cars other than a yellow 02 camaro should have to weigh 4500 lbs or run 240 CI and smaller. Now that we have that straight, we dont care what you do with the money! LOL! I agree Johnny, moving the money farther back will greatly help. The guys that struggle this weekend wont lose all their money. People come to see the entire show, and the entire show should be rewarded for it IN MY OPINION. Of course you all know, my opinion on here in no way reflects the views of anybody else. If we then get people coming back, and get fans in the seats, then we can bring money back to the top...I am very passionate about things that interest me. Racing interests me, and this organization can get better, but it takes support from racers and fans FIRST AND FOREMOST. Sponsors dont want to give money to something that only has 10 cars show up. A nitrous company does not want to give money to ORSCA with only 2 nitrous cars showing up. Lets make the end of the year big at ORSCA races and bring this thing back to life! Whatcha say Johnny? Get me some passes to Adel to pass out like ADRL, but not 40 billion of them, but I say give some seats away. If you give 20 away you dont lose anything, unless you give them to the people that would have paid before......give them to somebody that usually wouldnt come to get them interested....just my opinion... |
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WFORAY
Posts:212
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| 07/15/2008 4:01 PM |
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| It's all Bush's fault, he put an embargo on nitrous technology. Then he gave Steve Petty federal grants to further turbo technology, as long as the turbo guys give earmarks on money made through turbo technology. It's all part of the energy crisis cure, wind powered technology through turbo advancements. I'm buyin' stock in Pro Line. It's a damn conspiracy, I tell you, a conspiracy!!!!! |
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The Only Way To Get There Is Wide Freakin' Open!! |
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Scott
Posts:254
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| 07/15/2008 4:06 PM |
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 yeah I need some of that grant money. What does one of those new billet wheel turbos cost? |
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ORSCA
Posts:1261
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| 07/16/2008 12:35 AM |
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Once again I ask who are all these nitrous cars we would get pooch.
all these nameless people that keep getting referd to
WHO ARE THEY
WHERE ARE THEY
I keep racking my brain and I just can't come up with any.
If you droped the weight would it then be cheaper for nitrous cars to travel from Texas to come here . NO
Maybe by pulling less weight in their toter homes they would save enough gas coming from New York it would make the trip affordable 
Hey I got a great idea we all know their are now more turbos in racing than big old 800 inch donkey motors lets charge turbo cars double entry fee. And cut the entry fee of the nitrous cars.
Yeah thats a great business strategy run off all the current customers you have now in hopes that new ones might come. we could also apply for one of those government bail out deals we are about to be raped for their bad business practice
I have a key board sofa laying tater chip eating challenge for you
if the weight was 2800 give me five names of current nitrous cars you know for a fact would be at an orsca event that aren't there now. Surley their has to be five  Im'e now eating tater chips and waiting on your response 
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The person who says it cannot be done should not interrupt
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Maxxxed Out
Posts:170
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| 07/16/2008 11:15 AM |
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| Mike Hill, Steve Kirk, John Choate, Stacey McIntyre, Bobby Cole, I mean, come on Johnny, dont try to blame it on prices, if Steve Kirk cant afford to race, then who can? When you only have 12 cars show up, its hard to say you are doing it right. I know things are expensive, and the economy is slow, but 90% of the guys racing have enough money generated to race every single ORSCA race. Well just say of the list of cars you have, half of them can afford to come, just as a situational agenda. Well half of 37 is 18.5.........long way from 10. You have 28 confirmed, half of them is 14, still 2 more than showed up in Montgomery. And that is less than HALF of what is a confirmed member of ORSCA Outlaw Points. I understand Montgomery is hot, and not the best situation in the world, but this is real world numbers Johnny. $150 per entry, times 12 entries is $1800. Payout to 8 places is $10,400. Now, fans is what pays that difference for those who dont know.....I dont care if you got 2 outlaw cars show up and pay $50,000 to win, if the seats are full, its worth it. Cars dont pay the bills, fans do. Obviously ORSCA doesnt appeal to fans for one reason or another. Maybe they dont know about the race? Maybe in Valdosta there needs to be 25,000 flyers passed out at the college and students get in for half price......I rather make $10,000 at half price than $5,000 at full price. This is no way directed at anybody, but ORSCA as an entirety. I dont like to go to a race that there are more cars than fans. Now, put down that bag of chips and that big gulp, and you tell me, is this making any sense to anybody but the ones that obviously care more about ORSCA than ORSCA does? |
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ORSCA
Posts:1261
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| 07/16/2008 12:09 PM |
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| Come on now pooch mike hill missed one race. Stacy never races anywhere but close to home allways has. Steve kirk was racing on johns wallet with johns car. The promod he races now belongs to someone else. Bobby cole now has a turbo car I dont think his absence has anything to do with the nitrous deal. Got to do better than that little buddy. I said name people that would realisticly be there. |
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The person who says it cannot be done should not interrupt
the person doing it." |
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Maxxxed Out
Posts:170
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| 07/16/2008 12:53 PM |
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| Ok, make it work with only 10 cars then Johnny.......Make it all turbo or whatever, I dont care, because I have no money tied up in ORSCA.....I was looking out for the best interest of the class and the organization. Johnny, something has to be done to keep ORSCA going. The morale of the Outlaw World is down. It needs to be up, WAY UP! Do something, even if its wrong. Get fans there, if you have to give tickets away. Who cares, if you gonna lose money, at least make it look good to the sponsors. They dont care how many cars come, or who wins, they want to see fans in the stands supporting the class the sponsor. |
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ORSCA
Posts:1261
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| 07/16/2008 1:34 PM |
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| I speak to sponsors daily. Believe me they are very aware of the status of the economy. I am quite sure pooch they are not soley depending on orsca to save them from a bad time in sales across the whole country. But i do like your business strategy of who cares if you lose a whole bunch of money. Hey take a look at the numbers of car that DNQ at the last two nhra events. They used to have fields of 40 cars trying to qualify 16 spots. Now the have like 3 or 4 extra cars that DNQ.
If you guys belive orsca is all alone in these hard times of a bad economy then you don't get out much. We are about to splatter south ga and north fla with tens of thousands of flyers. We are talking with radio and tv about large advertisement. Even looking at some buy one get a girl in free deals.
Do we have all the answers to save the whole racing world ? Don't think so. Will we do the very best anyone can to keep what we have strived for years to have. That you can count on |
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The person who says it cannot be done should not interrupt
the person doing it." |
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gtochic
Posts:68
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| 07/16/2008 1:49 PM |
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I don't have a dog in this particular fight, we race 5.0 and love every minute of it (except the extreme heat of Jackson). I do not think that it is just the 10.5 class that is the issue here. The numbers in all of the classes is
down. I am the wife not the driver and would rather be at a race than sitting at home.
The fact is that Money is TIGHT for everyone. But I agree with Pooch on this, something needs to be done
to get the fans in the stands. Do I have the answers, maybe, maybe not? Half price tickets to students in a college town, and or the military. Not everyone that comes in the gate is a student or military, they will bring some full paying fans in the gate with them. Are we doing all we can to advertise in the markets that we are targeting?????
I know probably more than I should, but the fact is-you have to spend it to make it. Johnny's still has to go through his "POWERS THAT BE" BEFORE he can spend anything. I know things are different from last year, more than just what everyone from the outside is seeing. But the fact still remains that we are not reaching the fans like we have in years past. Is this really a nitrous vs. turbo fight, still remains to be seen.
Does ORSCA/Year One have a PR person that works on just this type of marketing? If not, they should.
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ORSCA
Posts:1261
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| 07/16/2008 3:37 PM |
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| Here are some promotions we will be doing in valdosta. We will be printing out a large number of tickets that will be given out to spectators that have admitt one female free with paid adult male ticket. It may be some crazy thinking but being a red blooded american guy few things draw my interest like cool cars and lots of ladies. The other thing will be tickets given to companies around south ga and north fla with 5.00 off a weekend pass for spectator gate.
We are having a flyer printed off by burke designs that is quite flashy.
Year one has drawn a 150 mile radius around sgmp any order shiped out will have an orsca flyer in it. They will be sending out emails anouncements to over 120,000 email with and orsca add about sgmp. They will also be printing color posters to put out in the add campaine. Along with thousands of fliers free. Promotions are very important you just have to keep them in check. It does no good to over spend on advertising and then have a rain out. If you spend 20 grand on it and it rains you still lose 20 grand.
Ideas are very useful if you have a business and would like to put out some fliers or maybe hang a poster up by all means send us your address in a email and we will ship you some out.
Attendence is low in many things now.many things contribute to this hot weather gas prices. Eating out hotels being higher now.
Every thing is tightning up their belt loops and trying to save for possible harder times.
We see the bottom line very clearly. Cutting cost and spending wisely is the best protection we can provide. South ga will be a tough market place thats for sure.
It's a super great facility for our racers that's why we want to go there. Wade the operations manager there is a good friend of ours and is very good at heads up orsca style racing. We believe he will be working just as hard as we are to make a home in SGMP for orsca.
It's our hope that this time off for the last two hot months has given all our racers time to unwind and make ready for a wild fall of some more rock and rolling racing in orsca.
Sgmp should be a good one be sure to let eveyone know you will be there.
Keep the minds working the only really bad ideas are the ones that never get brought up.
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The person who says it cannot be done should not interrupt
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