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Subject: Pro Ladder Vs Sportsman Ladder
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ORSCA News User is Offline
Posts:1137



07/10/2008 7:25 PM Alert 

There is misconception among many racers and fans that a pro ladder means no bye runs after 1 st round or in to the money rounds.
 
THAT IS ABSOLUTELY NOT TRUE IN ANY WAY/SHAPE/FORM or FASHION.

A pro ladder simply means that the fastest qualiifer runs the slowest qualifier if there is an even amont of cars in the first round. If there is an odd amount such as 17 then #1 qualifier gets a first round bye and 2 runs 16 / 3 runs 15 etc. This way rewards the faster qualiifer with a slower opponent.

A sportsman ladder means the fastest qualifier runs the fastest qualifier of the bottom half of the field. In a 8 car field it would mean 1 runs 5 / 2 runs 6 etc. In a 16 car field 1 runs 9 and in a 32 car field 1 runs 17 and so on. This way rewards the fans with supposedly closer racing since the
cars should be more evenly matched performance wise.

I have attached the ladders for a few different car counts to illustrate the difference.

Pro First 16 car pro Sportsman 16 Car Sportsman 17 Car Pro 17 car pro 17 Car Sportsman 17 Car Sportsman 23 Car Pro 23 Car Pro 23 Car Sportsman 23 Car Sportsman AS you can see the only difference is the opponents.
 
The reason they don't have bye runs in most pro races you have seen is they are run in 8,16 or in years past 32 cars.  Those breakdown evenly as well as 64 and 128.And actually the NHRA will usually cut off there sportsman classes at 128 if there is more.
 
The ladders reward the #1 qualifier with a bye run in the first round and if a second round bye is necessary the #2 qualifier or the person that beat him in the first round and so on.  Another characteristic of both ladders is that no 2 racers get a bye run same round and no one gets a second bye unless every remaining car has had one.
 (Broke Bye Runs Do Not Affect This)
 
So actually promoters that run all cars are actually doing some racers a favor by allowing everyone to race.  They could easily cut off the field at 8,16,32,64,128,256 etc.and keep the non-qualifiers entry and pay all the places advertised. It is not a conspiracy or greediness.

So basically ORSCA races don't run a PRO or SPORTSMAN Ladder. We run an ORSCA Ladder.

http://www.wademooney.com
http://www.myspace.com/wademooney

I am available for race announcing, round by round coverage, race recaps. Reasonable rates.
Call Wade Mooney 1-334-614-0636

email: wademooney@ymail.com
kpeztruck User is Offline
Posts:230



07/10/2008 7:46 PM Alert 
Wade, I see and understand the ladders. I can only assume that this is a carry-over from the other topic. Someone had mentioned that they liked a pro ladder because all byes were done first round, and basicly that it was a single elimination. We better be on our game or we are going home. With that said, what point are you trying to get across to us? Sorry, but that is as plain and simple as I can put it. Is ORSCA trying to do away with the possibly large amount of bye runs when running 32, or 64 car pro ladders? The reason I ask, is because you posted the possibility of odd number of cars pro ladders. Is ORSCA testing the waters with these posts for peoples responses, or are these posts for our information? Thanks. Paul Baxter

P.S. Call me if this forum is not the most proper place for any responses. 770-861-1412 Thanks

No Sanity Required Racing, Southern Truck Parts 1-800-608-3888 for all diesel performance and repairs. New sponsor added for 2008, Mickey Thompson Tires.
ORSCA News User is Offline
Posts:1137



07/10/2008 8:00 PM Alert 
Absolutley NOT..............but considering we have no racing going on I am quite bored. Blame Johnny and the rain.

It's just that I hear racers at almost every event I attend make comments one way or another about ladders. I have heard one racer say he quit attending George Howard Head-Up races because he ran a sportsman ladder. That is not true. The ones I attended, he didn't run a ladder at all.

I appreciate when I learn something and if this helps someone not make a fool of themself ,hey it was worth the time.

NO HIDDEN AGENDA OR MOTIVE IN EITHER TOPIC.

I brought the buyback topic up because of the baileyton race advertised on the board and saw that several ORSCA regulars showed interest in attending.

http://www.wademooney.com
http://www.myspace.com/wademooney

I am available for race announcing, round by round coverage, race recaps. Reasonable rates.
Call Wade Mooney 1-334-614-0636

email: wademooney@ymail.com
Billy Mac User is Offline
Posts:233



07/10/2008 8:12 PM Alert 
Simplify things.....In classes that are large enough to support 32 or 64 car fields, fine.......#33(and slower) and # 65 (and slower) or breakout runners go to the house, try again next time.

In the event there are less than 32 cars.....it becomes a 16 car field, Period!.......That eliminates ANY first round bye runs, unless it is a competition break bye...and you are subject to get those even in the finals.

I know what I am saying seems harsh.....but think about it....a "Quick 8" show doesn't go to first round with 9 or 10 cars, they field 8....to the non-qualifiers...Hate your bad luck, twist on some wrenches before the next race and come on out and try again......I mean sheesh...even John Force doesn't qualify at Every race.....and when he doesn't qualify, he becomes a spectator and a cheerleader for his other teams.  And the argument that "our racers travel a long way to race, they should be allowed to race", is true, they DO travel a long way (some more than others) and it's getting more and more expensive just to get TO the track.......but if you can't qualify in a specified number of cars, I'm sorry, but try again next time.
kpeztruck User is Offline
Posts:230



07/10/2008 8:15 PM Alert 
Thanks Wade. There are very few things that are constant in this world, but change is always constant. I honestly thought that a pro ladder always had two sides, so I did learn something as well. I believe the reason so many ORSCA regulars showed interest in the race in question was due to the $ 4000.00 to win that was advertised. For that much money I would have to consider it as well. I have my car apart again, just trying to chase gremlins. We will run 5.0 and run it consistantly, even if the late nights and long hours kill me. We should be testing again in a couple weeks. At least I will be in the car again. I do look forward to more comfortable weather in the second half of the season. Paul Baxter

No Sanity Required Racing, Southern Truck Parts 1-800-608-3888 for all diesel performance and repairs. New sponsor added for 2008, Mickey Thompson Tires.
ORSCA News User is Offline
Posts:1137



07/10/2008 8:39 PM Alert 
The 2 sides is just a matter of appearence. Portrait vs Landscape.

http://www.wademooney.com
http://www.myspace.com/wademooney

I am available for race announcing, round by round coverage, race recaps. Reasonable rates.
Call Wade Mooney 1-334-614-0636

email: wademooney@ymail.com
Pitts Performance User is Offline
Posts:259



07/10/2008 11:04 PM Alert 
Hey Wade, Thanks for the info. I think more people than will admit it learned something off of this post. I know I did.

Powered by LOWE's Auto Parts 334-832-9773 (James)
Kenny_STP User is Offline
Posts:82



07/11/2008 2:51 PM Alert 
Wade you have way to much time on your hands. Phenix City, Macon,ORSCA type Ladders are the ladders I refer to as Pro ladders. At Phenix City if we have 19 cars we have a run off to get to 16 cars,This may not be a Pro ladder but its the fairest way to get to the kinda racing that I will come to and not have to send anybody home. See ya'll in Sept. at ORSCA car is in paint shop. Kenny
ORSCA News User is Offline
Posts:1137



07/11/2008 8:33 PM Alert 

LOL yea Kenny I know.

 

What are you doing to the paint?  I thought the new scheme looked good.


http://www.wademooney.com
http://www.myspace.com/wademooney

I am available for race announcing, round by round coverage, race recaps. Reasonable rates.
Call Wade Mooney 1-334-614-0636

email: wademooney@ymail.com
Kenny_STP User is Offline
Posts:82



07/12/2008 6:11 AM Alert 
The fire in Montgomery got the hood,scoop,and the windshield. Looks like trip #2 to Las Vegas next weekend will have to take the place of racing. The car will be ready mid Aug. See ya'll soon Kenny
ORSCA User is Offline
Posts:1282



07/12/2008 10:09 AM Alert 
Kenny I have been saving for weeks and now have a total of $25 dollars saved up. 
When you go in the casino  if you see a fat lady in a black dress at the dice talble watch her close.  If she laughs place the whole 25 on #9 and let it ride with the high rollers.  If she is cursing  hold off until atleast 3 rolls then slap it down
I will split the winnings with you

The person who says it cannot be done should not interrupt
the person doing it."
ORSCA User is Offline
Posts:1282



07/12/2008 10:24 AM Alert 
Posted By Kenny_STP on 07/11/2008 2:51 PM
Wade you have way to much time on your hands. Phenix City, Macon,ORSCA type Ladders are the ladders I refer to as Pro ladders. At Phenix City if we have 19 cars we have a run off to get to 16 cars,This may not be a Pro ladder but its the fairest way to get to the kinda racing that I will come to and not have to send anybody home. See ya'll in Sept. at ORSCA car is in paint shop. Kenny
Kenny just so you know I have been calling  Wade all week and trying to give him useless things to do to keep him busy.  It just hasn't worked. He still has racing withdrawls.  When we first met Wade we were racing wide open and we loved that his mind never shut off about racing.  I didn't think about what would happen if we took a summer break. 

He is like one of those intendo games that lays in the toy closet and chirps and beeps all night long and you can't find the off button to. 
If we stay off very much longer we may have to do one of those intervention deals on him. 
Remember Wade your ORSCA family loves you and we will be there for you through this terrible ordeal.  The pain will get easier.  All these terrible thoughts and feelings you are having now are not real and won't last forever.
Please just put the mouse down and back away from the keyboard slowly.
Ellen is proff that you can kick this if you really try.


The person who says it cannot be done should not interrupt
the person doing it."
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