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Subject: Vengeance EFI Hot Street 2009 Rules inside!!!
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Ron@Vengeance User is Offline
Posts:86



12/31/2008 2:22 PM Alert 

VENGEANCE EFI HOT STREET

2009 Rules

 

 

Presented by: ORSCA

www.OutlawRacing.com

 

Sponsored by: Vengeance Racing

www.VengeanceRD.com

 

 

ENTRY:

$25.00 Registration Fee

$100.00 Annual Fee (ORSCA Membership)

 

PURSE:

$350.00 FIRST PLACE

$200.00 SECOND PLACE

$100.00 THIRD PLACE

 

FORMAT:

1/8 Mile in conjunction with all ORSCA events

Pro Tree

Heads Up Racing

 

GENERAL OVERVIEW:

 

ORSCA “EFI Hot Street” is a class designed for LATE MODEL STREET CARS and TRUCKS equipped with DOT Legal street tires or Drag Radials. EFI Hot Street entries are permitted EFI Naturally Aspirated/nitrous equipped/supercharged/ or turbo charged small block applications up to 427 cubic inches. This class is designed for stock bodied, stock appearing vehicles driven on the street. EFI Hot Street races will be conducted at all ORSCA drag racing events (see race schedule). Each event, the winner of the class will be required to carry an additional 25lbs for the next event, and the runner up will be required to carry an additional 10lbs. This weight adder will be cumulative through the racing season, adding up each event. At the conclusion of the season all racer weights will be set to zero.

 

REQUIREMENTS:

·         Valid Drivers License- MUST match driver of vehicle

·         Valid Registration- MUST match vehicle entered to race

·         Valid Insurance-MUST match vehicle/driver

·         All entries must be self starting with on board starter

·         All lights on vehicle must be functional. IE Headlights/taillights/brake lights/turn signals/hazard lights

·         Driver/vehicle must complete 25 mile cruise unassisted in the timeframe set fourth by ORSCA. Any vehicle that does not complete the cruise will NOT be allowed to race

·         Vehicles hood is to remain closed  after returning from 25 mile cruise. Any racer found opening his hood for any reason will be disqualified immediately.

 

25 MILE CRUISE:

There will be a 25 mile supervised cruise on highway and city streets prior to competition, limited to those vehicles who have passed tech inspection. An escort will supervise the cruise in accordance with local laws and ordinances. Each competitor and crew will be on their own recognizance during the cruise and bear full responsibility of their actions as they would on city streets. Please be safe and follow all traffic laws during the cruise.

 

Cruise is mandatory in the time allotted for competition. Any vehicle unable to complete the cruise under its own power, within the allotted time, will be disqualified from racing. Any vehicle that falls behind the trailing escort will be disqualified.

 

VEHICLES PERMITTED:

1985 to current

EFI ONLY

V8

 

MINIMUM WEIGHT-3300lbs (Including Driver)

Vehicles will be weighed after each pass during eliminations. Any entry not meeting the base weight requirements will be disqualified.

 

WEIGHT BREAKS:

·         Manual Transmissions deduct 100lbs from base weight

·         Nitrous powered cars deduct 50lbs from base weight

·         Non Intercooled/non aftercooled supercharger systems deduct 50lbs from base weight

·         Less than 370 cubic inches deduct 50lbs from base weight

·         Over 404 cubic inches ADD 50lbs to base weight

·         Naturally Aspirated combinations under 404 cubic inches deduct 100lbs from base weight

·         Naturally Aspirated combinations over 404 cubic inches deduct 50lbs from base weight

 

SAFETY:

It is the participants responsibility to familiarize oneself with the class requirements as found in the 2009 ORSCA rulebook AND the safety requirements as found in the 2009 NHRA rulebook. The participant agrees that he/she bears the ultimate responsibility at all times to ensure the safety of participants vehicle and to ensure that he/she complies with all applicable ORSCA/NHRA rules.

 

ORSCA REQUIRED DECALS:

All participants will be required to display ORSCA official windshield decal

All participants will be required to display Vengeance Racing decal.. Placement TBD prior to first scheduled event

 

EXTERIOR OF VEHICLE:

·         Vehicle must have full body

·         Aftermarket body kits accepted as long as they are for aesthetics only

·         Aftermarket hoods allowed

·         Cowl Hoods limited to 4” cowl

·         Pin on Hoods permitted

·         Absolutely NO lexan

·         Stock front fenders/front clip. NO removable one piece setups

·         Vehicle must have driver/passenger exterior mirrors if originally equipped

 

INTERIOR OF VEHICLE:

·         Interior of vehicle must maintain “stock appearance”

·         Factory gauge cluster intact and functioning

·         Door panels/Interior trim in place where applicable

·         Stock pedals/mounting location required

·         Aftermarket steering columns prohibited

·         Removable steering wheels prohibited

·         Aftermarket steering wheels permitted. MUST bolt to column

·         Factory or aftermarket headliner required

·         Aftermarket gauges permitted

·         Rear seat delete permitted

 

CHASSIS/FRAME/SUSPENSION:

Stock type suspension may utilize aftermarket, direct replacement type suspension components including aftermarket replacement shocks/springs (In factory location), leaf springs, and/or control arms. All stock type 3 or 4 link suspensions must maintain stock lateral angles and attachment points, but may be moved up or down on rear axle. Aftermarket torque arms permitted, if OEM equipped with torque arm. Attachment point of torque arm on body or frame may be relocated, but OEM attachment point at rear end must be retained. Aftermarket leaf spring kits permitted.

 

·         Full frame as manufactured

·         Engine in factory location

·         No motor plates

·         Solid motor mounts accepted

·         Stock style suspension using stock mounting locations. No deviations

·         Coil overs accepted

·         Subframe connectors accepted

·         Stock wheelbase

·         No “Racing” 4 Link/backhalf cars permitted

·         No wheelie bars

·         Mini tubs accepted

·         Factory firewall in OE location required

·         Engine location may not be altered from stock

·         No part of engine or heads may contact firewall

·         Aftermarket rearends using factory mounting points permitted

 

 

ENGINE: CYLINDER HEADS- General Guidelines

·         Only commercially available/mass produced cast aluminum or cast iron cylinder heads permitted

·         Two valves per cylinder unless otherwise produced by OEM manufacturer (3 valve/4 valve Modular)

·         Billet, one off, custom and/or fabricated heads prohibited

·         Cylinder heads must be overhead valve single spark plug per cylinder design

·         External modifications prohibited in port areas

·         Spark plug placement and depth must remain stock

·         Welding/Epoxy any part of the cylinder head prohibited

·         Hand and CNC ported permitted

·         Milling of cylinder heads permitted

·         Max Intake Runner volume not to exceed 245cc (GM L92/LS7 excluded from this rule)

 

PERMITTED CYLINDER HEAD LIST:

These are the only permitted cylinder heads for competition in this category. If your cylinder head is not on the list, it is prohibited.

 

Small Block FORD- Standard Intake Runner & Exhaust Port versions only

·         FORD OEM 4.6L 2/3/4valve,5.0,5.8 Cast Iron and Aluminum heads

·         FRPP GT-40/GT-40P/GT-40X/GT-40Y

·         FRPP “Z” Part# M-6049-Z304

·         Edelbrock Performer & Performer RPM

·         Edelbrock Victor Jr (20* Version only)

·         Trickflow Twisted Wedge, Twisted Wedge R, TFS Hi Port & Track Heat (Non R)

·         Brodix ST 5.0 Aluminum, PT# ST 5/0, ST 5.0R

·         Brodix TI & T1X

·         Holley 5.0 Pt#300-573,574,575,577,578,579

·         World Products Roush 180 & Windsor Jr Pt# 53030,23030

·         AFR 165/185/205
World Products Roush 200 & Windsor Sr Pt#53040

·         DART Pro I 170cc/195 As Cast/215CNC

·         Canfield 20* 197cc Pt# 20-450-20-475

·         RHS 180cc &200cc Iron and aluminum

 

Small Block Chevrolet-Standard Intake Runner & Exhaust Port Versions Only

·         GM & Chevrolet Factory Small Block Heads, Including LS1/LT4, etc

·         Edelbrock Performer LS1/LPE/Performer RPM/E-Tec 170 &200cc

·         Edelbrock Victor Jr, 23* Standard Runner/Exhaust Port only

·         AFR LS1 205/225

·         AFR 180/190/195/210/220 Standard Runner/Exhaust Port only

·         Brodix RR180,RR200-8&-10 Standard

·         Dart Iron Eagle 165cc thru 215cc

·         Dart Pro 1 200 thru215cc

·         ET Performance LS Series 5.3/LS/LS7

·         Canfield 23-500 23*, 23-600(220cc)
TrickFlow 215cc R Series & Duttweiller 23*

·         TrickFlow 215/225/235/245 CNC

·         TrickFlow 220 As Cast

·         World Products S/R Torquer, Sportsman II 200cc

·         World Products Motown 205cc, 220cc

·         C5R/C5R Style Heads Prohibited

 

Chrysler Small Block:

·         Stock Factory OEM Iron or OEM Aluminum 318/340/360 Cylinder Heads

·         Edelbrock Performer RPM & RPM 340

·         Brodix B1-Ba (Not MC)

·         Mopar Performance W2

·         Indy 360-2 Oval port only (not 360-1 Rectangular port)

 

AMC Small Block:

·         Edelbrock Performance RPM

·         AMC Factory OEM Iron & Aluminum

 

ENGINE:Block

·         OEM and aftermarket blocks permitted

·         Engine blocks must be mass produced and available for purchase by any individual

·         Aluminum and steel blocks permitted

 

TRANSMISSION:

·         Factory Mass Production style 3/4/5/6 speed transmissions accepted

·         No clutchless manuals allowed

·         Manual cars must use OE STYLE clutch/flywheel

·         Twin disk clutches permitted if readily available in the aftermarket

·         No Transbrakes/Two steps/stutter boxes/electronic devices allowed

·         Pneumatic/electric/hydraulic etc shifters prohibited

·         Proshifting/faceplating manual transmissions prohibited

·         Lenko/Liberty/Powerglides Prohibited

 

EXHAUST:

·         All vehicles must have full exhaust including mufflers

·         Exhaust must exit the vehicle no less than 12” from centerline of rear axle

·         No collector style mufflers permitted

·         Exhaust size limited to 1 7/8 primary and 3” collector

·         3” maximum exhaust pipe from header to mufflers

·         Turbocharged engines may use a single 4” maximum exhaust from the turbo housing, but it must split to dual 3” prior to the driver seat area

POWER ADDERS:

·         Turbos/Nitrous/Superchargers allowed

·         Single Power Addder Only

·         Power Adders cannot be used in conjunction with one another. The only exception is twin turbo systems not exceeding 57mm each

·         Meth Injection/Alcohol Prohibited

 

TURBOS:

·         Turbocharger must be of conventional impeller and housing design and type.

·         Turbocharger is limited to a maximum size of 76mm/2.755 Inducer wheel diameter at the point where leading edge of the   compressor wheel meets the inlet housing.

·         Inlet housing is permitted a maximum inlet diameter of 2.814” where the leading edge of the compressor wheel meets the housing. All air entering turbocharger must pass thru turbocharger inlet

·         Injection of any liquid/gas or other substance into the inlet or exhaust housing prohibited

·         Turbocharger compressor wheel must be constructed of cast or billet aluminum

·         Exotic material wheels prohibited

·         The tips of the impeller wheel may not be stepped, cut down or notched to meet impeller tip to tip dimension

·         T4 Inlet Flange Only

·         T4 Flange must be T4 casted housing. No studded or altered T6 Housing permitted

·         No modifications to turbo or flange in anyway

·         Intercoolers allowed. Must mount in engine bay of vehicle

·         No intercoolers/aftercoolers allowed in passenger compartment

 

TWIN TURBOS:

·         Turbo charger must be of conventional impeller and housing design and type

·         Turbocharger is limited to a maximum size of 57mm

·         All air entering turbocharger must pass thru turbo inlet

·         Injection of any liquid/gas or any other substance into the inlet or exhaust housing prohibited

·         Turbo compressor wheel must be constructed of cast or billet aluminum.

·         Exotic material wheels prohibited

·         Tips of impeller wheel may not be stepped, cutdown or notched to meet impeller tip to tip dimension

·         T3 Flange-Must be T3 casted housing, no studded or altered T4 housings

·         No Hybrid turbos

·         Intercoolers/aftercoolers permitted in engine bay only

·         No intercoolers/aftercoolers allowed in passenger compartment

 

SUPERCHARGERS: Permitted superchargers are restricted to accepted commercially available, standard, mass produced systems, utilizing the factory style belt drive.  Internals of supercharger units may not be modified from standard, mass produced units. Injection of any liquid/gas or any other substance into the supercharger prohibited. All supercharger systems must utilize stock, as provided supercharger head unit

 

·         Cog systems prohibited

·         6 and 8 rib belt drives accepted (10rib if OE equipped)

·         Superchargers must be commercially available

·         Head units may not be altered in ANY way including removal or Manufacturers “Tag”

·         Intercoolers allowed. Must mount in engine compartment

·         No intercoolers/aftercoolers permitted in passenger comparment

 

Maximum blower size options:

 

·         Vortech T Trim

·         ProCharger D1SC

·         Paxton Novi 1500

·         Powerdyne and/or SVO/FRPP Street System

·         Eaton 112

·         Kenne Bell 2.8

·         Whipple 2.3

 

NITROUS:

·         Single stage Nitrous Only

·         Purge Kits permitted

·         Purge must exit engine compartment

·         Nitrous Pill limited to 99 Orifice-Stock Unmodified

·         One Bottle in vehicle-10lbs max

·         Nitrous Push systems prohibited

·         NANO systems prohibited

·         Progressive controllers permitted

 

TIRES/WHEELS:

·         DOT Tires Only

·         ET Drags/ET Streets/Bias Ply tired prohibited

·         Tires must be on vehicle for 25 mile cruise AND race

·         Spindle Mount front wheels prohibited

·         Max Rear Tire Diameter: 28”/Tread width: 9.5”/Circumference 87” (275/60/15 Mickey Thompson Drag Radial)

 

ENGINE MANAGEMENT:

·         No Laptops or datalogging equipment in car during race

·         Speed Density permitted for all combinations

·         OEM Engine control computer MUST be functional

·         Plug In chips and EEC computer Add ons permitted for FORD EEC IV or FORD EEC V ONLY

·         EFI Add ons: If your computer is not on the list it is prohibited

·         FRPP Extender

·         FRPP EPEC

·         Anderson FORD PMS

·         Autologic Plug In EEC Chip

·         SuperChips Plug in EEC Chip

·         HyperChip Plug In EEC Chip

·         Diablo Plug In EEC Chip

·         EEC Tuner

·         SCT XCalibrator & XCAL2

·         Diablo Predator

 

FUEL:

·         No “racing fuel” permitted

·         No octane additive allowed

·         No fuel can be added after 25 mile cruise

·         Vehicle must have the ability to provide sample of fuel without teardown for inspection

·         Spec Fuel will be VP100 Street Blaze or equivalent

 

INTAKE MANIFOLD:

·         Commercially available, mass produced intake manifolds permitted

·         Any height spacer permitted between EFI upper/lower intakes only

·         All runners must be completely separated from each other runner

·         Spacer or gasket must not create “plenum” or any other means for air to pass between runners

·         Porting permitted for EFI Upper/Lower intake manifolds

·         Upper EFI Manifold may be ported, but may not be cut, modified or welded.

·         Runners may not be shortened

·         Welding/Epoxy prohibited

·         Custom sheet metal intakes prohibited

 

THROTTLEBODY:

·         ONLY mass produced, commercially available throttlebodies permitted

·         Single throttlebody only

 

FUEL INJECTORS:

·         Any type /size fuel injector permitted

·         Maximum of 8 injectors located in stock location

 

AIR CLEANER:

·         Commercially available, mass produced automotive air cleaner required

·         All incoming air MUST pass thru air cleaner

 

By participating in EFI HOT STREET all racers agree to the rules listed above. All racers also agree to all ORSCA/NHRA/IHRA safety rules for their ET. All racers also understand and agree that  after winning an event they may be challenged by a member of ORSCA staff or a fellow racer. Should this situation arise said racer will comply with the dispute/challenge in a timely/professional manner.

 

Keith Berry User is Offline
Posts:315



12/31/2008 2:25 PM Alert 
Are these revised from the last ones?

BMF Motorsports

askennedy User is Offline
Posts:204



12/31/2008 2:34 PM Alert 

Noticed some minor changes.

Keith I had just asked a question in the other Post about your Flat Black Z06. Will you tell us a little about it?

I am guess 427ci Proline motor......with a twin 57.

I have a customer with a C6 Z06 with the ASP kit and twin 60's. It made Sick HP. He is pretty quiet about it, the only reason I know about it is that I sold him the 120# injectors he is running.  

Ron@Vengeance User is Offline
Posts:86



12/31/2008 2:46 PM Alert 
Added two sets of cylinder heads and required valid insurance.

Im TRYING to educate myself on these FORD combos :)

I tell ya, with as much as I have gotten my ass ripped on this deal you would think ANYONE could write a set of rules to cater to such a broad crowd ;)

BTW Allen, motors are electric... Keith is building an ENGINE :) :)
askennedy User is Offline
Posts:204



12/31/2008 3:11 PM Alert 
It was this one, before he did the update.
I have heard that Flat Black will make it faster.
Keith Berry User is Offline
Posts:315



12/31/2008 3:12 PM Alert 
askennedy,
What other post did you ask in? You can check it out on www.bmfmotorsports.net

BMF Motorsports

askennedy User is Offline
Posts:204



12/31/2008 3:13 PM Alert 
After re reading the rules....it got me thinking.....I have a 400ci MOTOR with non R heads already sitting in a car.
just kidding
Keith Berry User is Offline
Posts:315



12/31/2008 3:22 PM Alert 
Flat black knocks off .300 in the 1/8.......some people say even more but I don't want to tell all my secrets.

BMF Motorsports

askennedy User is Offline
Posts:204



12/31/2008 3:25 PM Alert 
I think I will go home and wet sand my Shiny black v6 mustang.
REDGAR User is Offline
Posts:24



12/31/2008 3:39 PM Alert 
Keith that addy did not work.

Are you the Keith Berry that ran in LSX Shootout?

You runnin' all motor or power adder?
ShadowMaster User is Offline
Posts:53



12/31/2008 4:14 PM Alert 
Posted By Keith Berry on 12/31/2008 3:22 PM
Flat black knocks off .300 in the 1/8.......some people say even more but I don't want to tell all my secrets.
Crap....have to go by Wal-Mart and get some Krylon. 


Exile Turbo
Probe/Coast High Performance
Street Car 1320 Clothing
ShadowLands Racing
Keith Berry User is Offline
Posts:315



12/31/2008 4:20 PM Alert 
Posted By REDGAR on 12/31/2008 3:39 PM
Keith that addy did not work.

Are you the Keith Berry that ran in LSX Shootout?

You runnin' all motor or power adder?

I just bought the domain today and had to go with www.bmfmotorsports.net instead. Somebody already had www.bmfracing.net but don't use the site. It will be up and running in a couple of days.

That was me at the LSX Shootout. Were you there?

I'm going to run all motor.

BMF Motorsports

REDGAR User is Offline
Posts:24



12/31/2008 5:00 PM Alert 
Yup I was there. Went the year before too and hope to make it this year for the trifecta.

Did you run all motor there? You ran some crazy MPH.
blue t User is Offline
Posts:21



12/31/2008 5:47 PM Alert 
I guess my answer to Ron's question about after market computers got deleted and I dont know if he responded. He asked how he could make it fare for one car to run after market and the other not. My answer was to let any one that wants to run it because that would let the older cars be able to tune their cars like the newer ones can.  If they want to spend the money to change to after market so be it.
Keith Berry User is Offline
Posts:315



12/31/2008 6:47 PM Alert 
Posted By REDGAR on 12/31/2008 5:00 PM
Yup I was there. Went the year before too and hope to make it this year for the trifecta.

Did you run all motor there? You ran some crazy MPH.

I was spraying a 200 shot. Good mph but my ET was off. Never could get my launch down. It was either spin or bog out of the hole. I'm planning on going again this year if all goes well.

BMF Motorsports

MMP racing User is Offline
Posts:112



12/31/2008 7:19 PM Alert 
Posted By blue t on 12/31/2008 5:47 PM
I guess my answer to Ron's question about after market computers got deleted and I dont know if he responded. He asked how he could make it fare for one car to run after market and the other not. My answer was to let any one that wants to run it because that would let the older cars be able to tune their cars like the newer ones can.  If they want to spend the money to change to after market so be it.
i asked the same thing, we talked a bout some systems other than a fast or bigstuff, i mentioned the megasquirt and the elctromotive for the fox body guys, so they too could have a "ls1 edit' but apparently we are stuck with the 15 year old stuff, that two of them cant even be bought anymore.
guess our conversation went in one ls ear and out the other.
ill maintain a steady flow of life without i guess and just be happy with 9th or 12th place.

98Z-LSX User is Offline
Posts:14



12/31/2008 8:06 PM Alert 
Posted By Ron@Vengeance on 12/31/2008 2:46 PM
Added two sets of cylinder heads and required valid insurance.

Im TRYING to educate myself on these FORD combos :)



I guess I did the enemy a favor last night talkin to you about the Hi Ports and such..  I figured after talkin with Brian Tooley that you would change the head rules.. 
askennedy User is Offline
Posts:204



12/31/2008 8:08 PM Alert 
MMP,

I am looking into an EEC-5 or LS1 computer conversion....my concern is the price and custom parts that are going to have to be built for it to work.....and I'm not sure I want to go that route.
REDGAR User is Offline
Posts:24



12/31/2008 9:38 PM Alert 
Well good Keith.  Keep the shot handy, you might neeed it in this class.
MMP racing User is Offline
Posts:112



12/31/2008 9:58 PM Alert 
Posted By askennedy on 12/31/2008 8:08 PM
MMP,

I am looking into an EEC-5 or LS1 computer conversion....my concern is the price and custom parts that are going to have to be built for it to work.....and I'm not sure I want to go that route.
DO YOU HAVE A LS1 IN YOUR CAR?

askennedy User is Offline
Posts:204



12/31/2008 10:25 PM Alert 
Posted By MMP racing on 12/31/2008 9:58 PM
Posted By askennedy on 12/31/2008 8:08 PM
MMP,

I am looking into an EEC-5 or LS1 computer conversion....my concern is the price and custom parts that are going to have to be built for it to work.....and I'm not sure I want to go that route.
DO YOU HAVE A LS1 IN YOUR CAR?


No, its a pushrod SBF
MMP racing User is Offline
Posts:112



01/01/2009 1:28 AM Alert 
i catch what your sayn.
Ron@Vengeance User is Offline
Posts:86



01/01/2009 1:51 AM Alert 
Posted By 98Z-LSX on 12/31/2008 8:06 PM
Posted By Ron@Vengeance on 12/31/2008 2:46 PM
Added two sets of cylinder heads and required valid insurance.

Im TRYING to educate myself on these FORD combos :)



I guess I did the enemy a favor last night talkin to you about the Hi Ports and such..  I figured after talkin with Brian Tooley that you would change the head rules.. 


You must not have read the rules above.. After talking with Brian this morning I added three sets of SBF heads to be competitive with the GM guys....

Happy New Year everyone
blue t User is Offline
Posts:21



01/01/2009 11:38 AM Alert 
Still no reply on the computer Ron. I would like to hear what you have to say about anyone running a after market set up.
MMP racing User is Offline
Posts:112



01/01/2009 12:32 PM Alert 
yep we all are waiting, got 12 cars waiting on some response, a megasuirt is not even as good as the ls1 edit but it is better than the a9l and any chip that uou can burn for it that bumps your timing. (woooooooooo).
HAFBREDSTANG User is Offline
Posts:199



01/01/2009 12:51 PM Alert 
Just got to ask, how are you going to police the factory computer rule? Also how many people are you going to have in tech? If you tech one class with 4-5+ people you need to do all of them like that or you'll have a problem on your hands. Cause i'd raise cane if you go through my ride with a fine tooth comb and the other classes are checked for helmets, jackets and tires. But jus my .03

Jeremy Roberts
NMRA FS 6811
OUTTA-CONTROL RACING
www.nmraracing.com
www.thefordsource.com
www.vpracingfuels.com
www.deltaforcetuning.com
askennedy User is Offline
Posts:204



01/01/2009 1:24 PM Alert 
I have been hearing that Vengance has aquired some help outside of ORSCA to assist in tech.
Ron@Vengeance User is Offline
Posts:86



01/01/2009 3:13 PM Alert 
We have had several people step up and offer to help with tech in this class. My HOPES would be people would build their cars to the rules and come race. We all know that isnt going to happen though. SO, this class will be teched for the rules. If we miss something and someone is dominating the class thats why we have the dispute rule.

I dont know about tech in the other classes, but EFI HOT STREET will be teched in accordance with the rules posted above.

As far as the PCM rule, I have had a number of people look at it and they say leave it alone. These are FOX Body owners/racers who are and have been going fast for a long time. IF I see the Fox body guys are at a disadvantage during the season I will make some changes....

Thanx again for all of your interest guys. Looking forward to seeing you at the track.
blue t User is Offline
Posts:21



01/01/2009 3:47 PM Alert 
Thanks for the reply Ron but I hate you wont change that because I feel that you are leaving out alot of good cars.
askennedy User is Offline
Posts:204



01/01/2009 4:53 PM Alert 
Posted By blue t on 01/01/2009 3:47 PM
Thanks for the reply Ron but I hate you wont change that because I feel that you are leaving out alot of good cars.


Blue t,

Where are you locate? We are in the same boat in North Alabama. We have about 6-8 cars that wont be competing, and only about half are mustangs,  the GN's and LT1 feel the same as the older mustangs.


F8LSNAKE User is Offline
Posts:10



01/01/2009 5:36 PM Alert 
I see there were a couple of ford heads added, but I feel you should still add the afr 225 head for ford. After all, it is permitted for chevy.
blue t User is Offline
Posts:21



01/01/2009 5:38 PM Alert 

I'm in Birmingham. I used to have the malibu with the gn drivetrain in it. I always buy my injectors from you. I have a T Type with a sbc and a single turbo with a 4l80e trans on 275/60 drag radials. I'm not going to try to figure out a way to put some kind of stock computer on my car that is a joke to run run a class for $350. I see where you are coming from because you run easy street it would make since for your kid to be able to run at the same races. I guess you could put him in 7.0 or 6.0 but who wants to bracket race.

askennedy User is Offline
Posts:204



01/01/2009 5:57 PM Alert 
I thought that might be you.
askennedy User is Offline
Posts:204



01/01/2009 8:09 PM Alert 
Posted By Ron@Vengeance on 01/01/2009 3:13 PM
As far as the PCM rule, I have had a number of people look at it and they say leave it alone. These are FOX Body owners/racers who are and have been going fast for a long time. IF I see the Fox body guys are at a disadvantage during the season I will make some changes....   


Ron,

Are these guys coming to race Hot Street? If so who are they? Do they normally run DR's and no Transbrakes?

All the ones around here that run low sixes run slicks and transbrakes.
97turboss User is Offline
Posts:11



01/01/2009 9:42 PM Alert 
Ron you say the rules will be tweaked if someone dominates all you have to do is change the year model cars you are allowing to run it should be 99 year and newer then you could say stock ecm then the ecm's would all be on a level playing field and if i am not mistaken the class reads vengance efi hot street so if your car is 85 model or newer with efi no matter what kind it is it should be legal
cmccarthy User is Offline
Posts:239



01/02/2009 12:16 AM Alert 
Ron, a midyear change isn't gonna help. We aren't going to build the car and then park it and wait for it to possibly become legal. That's ridiculous.
MMP racing User is Offline
Posts:112



01/02/2009 1:25 AM Alert 
i dont know who these fox body guys are you are in reference to but i sure do hope they show up to race cuz ill be standin over shoulders to pick up some tips,after almost twenty years i would love to see someone running 6.00 with a mass air a9l pcm in a fox with the list of plug in chips you have listed.
anderson pms is $1500 a tweecer or megasuirt is not even half that and doesnt have any "hidden secrets" like traction control or anything like that, so give us the list of names with the fox bodies that you talked to i would be interested in buying a setup similar to theres from them.
cmccarthy User is Offline
Posts:239



01/02/2009 2:29 AM Alert 
He can't name names, because they don't exist.
Ron@Vengeance User is Offline
Posts:86



01/02/2009 9:22 AM Alert 
Posted By cmccarthy on 01/02/2009 2:29 AM
He can't name names, because they don't exist.

They exist... I just dont feel like having their phones blow up for the next month with calls from guys like you who just dont seem to get it......

If you dont like the rules, DONT race... If you do, then put your keyboard down and get to the track. Simple as that.
HAFBREDSTANG User is Offline
Posts:199



01/02/2009 9:23 AM Alert 
The one thing I can say about this class, if you are going to run it you better get there early cause you are going to be in the tech line for awhile. A good time to get to know the guys you are racing

Jeremy Roberts
NMRA FS 6811
OUTTA-CONTROL RACING
www.nmraracing.com
www.thefordsource.com
www.vpracingfuels.com
www.deltaforcetuning.com
askennedy User is Offline
Posts:204



01/02/2009 11:05 AM Alert 
Posted By MMP racing on 01/02/2009 1:25 AM
i dont know who these fox body guys are you are in reference to but i sure do hope they show up to race cuz ill be standin over shoulders to pick up some tips,after almost twenty years i would love to see someone running 6.00 with a mass air a9l pcm in a fox with the list of plug in chips you have listed.
anderson pms is $1500 a tweecer or megasuirt is not even half that and doesnt have any "hidden secrets" like traction control or anything like that, so give us the list of names with the fox bodies that you talked to i would be interested in buying a setup similar to theres from them.
Just an FYI about the traction control......some of the best traction control devices out there come in the OEM computer.....they just need to be tweaked for racing applications.

blue t User is Offline
Posts:21



01/02/2009 12:05 PM Alert 
Ron we want to race but we cant because of one small rule. Its not so easy to run out and put a stock computer in a 87 buick regal. I dont see why you dont just change it. I could care less and I think the others could care less if you have a twin turbo viper with a fast on it or if you have a twin turbo 85 mustang with a fast on it. We just want to be able to run the class and I dont think it is very cost affective for use to run out and change our computer. If dont want us to run I dont guess we will iys your call you make the rules.
t berry User is Offline
Posts:1002



01/02/2009 12:15 PM Alert 
Guys i aint the smartest person on the stock ecm but that rule is there for a reason it will be the one of the factors that keeps this class in line and give the average street car a place to race.

www.berrymotorsports.net
askennedy User is Offline
Posts:204



01/02/2009 12:19 PM Alert 
Posted By t berry on 01/02/2009 12:15 PM
Guys i aint the smartest person on the stock ecm but that rule is there for a reason it will be the one of the factors that keeps this class in line and give the average street car a place to race.


Todd,

The problem is that all computer are not equal. You can do things with the LS1 and EEC5 computers that cant be done with the LT1, EEC4 and Turbo Buick computers.

Its like comparing the latest Generation BS3 / XFI to a Classic FAST / DFI.

askennedy User is Offline
Posts:204



01/02/2009 12:19 PM Alert 
Posted By t berry on 01/02/2009 12:15 PM
Guys i aint the smartest person on the stock ecm but that rule is there for a reason it will be the one of the factors that keeps this class in line and give the average street car a place to race.


Another thing.....these are not going to be your average Street cars :)
t berry User is Offline
Posts:1002



01/02/2009 12:31 PM Alert 
What is the maximum size injector you can run with these aftermarket computers.

www.berrymotorsports.net
askennedy User is Offline
Posts:204



01/02/2009 12:57 PM Alert 
Posted By t berry on 01/02/2009 12:31 PM
What is the maximum size injector you can run with these aftermarket computers.

600# per hour :) The aftermarket are not limited due to the fact that they can run Low Impedence injectors.


The stock computer are setup to run hi Impedence from the factory and the biggest current on the market is a 75#, a Hi imp 83 is suppose to be released this month. But you can run larger with a low impedence injector driver or modification to the factory computer.
t berry User is Offline
Posts:1002



01/02/2009 1:43 PM Alert 
Posted By askennedy on 01/02/2009 12:57 PM
Posted By t berry on 01/02/2009 12:31 PM
What is the maximum size injector you can run with these aftermarket computers.

600# per hour :) The aftermarket are not limited due to the fact that they can run Low Impedence injectors.


The stock computer are setup to run hi Impedence from the factory and the biggest current on the market is a 75#, a Hi imp 83 is suppose to be released this month. But you can run larger with a low impedence injector driver or modification to the factory computer.

Let me ask another dumb question what cant you run put a late model computer in an older car. The reason i say that is because we can limit the injector with a stock computer which will help the class from getting out of hand. This is the major reason for stock computers it has nothing to do with Chevrolet  v/s ford v/s dodge tuners this is just one way to help police the class.

www.berrymotorsports.net
t berry User is Offline
Posts:1002



01/02/2009 1:51 PM Alert 
ASKENNEDY just how fast is your car i see where you want to run modified street and that class is going 5.40 to 5.50 every pass this is the main reason it will be stock computers. This class is gonna be in the low to mid 6 sec, range so most street cars can compete not just a few.


askennedy User is Offline
Posts:124




01/02/2009 12:30 PM Quote Reply Alert
Johnny,

If car count isnt there in M/S by mid season, will you coniser letting in EFI and street blowers on 275's DR. Somthing similar to the outlaw 275 DR classes. It looks like you have done that for the Nitrous combos.

We no longer fit Hot Street and are looking for a place to race.

www.berrymotorsports.net
Ron@Vengeance User is Offline
Posts:86



01/02/2009 1:57 PM Alert 
Posted By askennedy on 01/02/2009 12:19 PM
Posted By t berry on 01/02/2009 12:15 PM
Guys i aint the smartest person on the stock ecm but that rule is there for a reason it will be the one of the factors that keeps this class in line and give the average street car a place to race.


Todd,

The problem is that all computer are not equal. You can do things with the LS1 and EEC5 computers that cant be done with the LT1, EEC4 and Turbo Buick computers.

Its like comparing the latest Generation BS3 / XFI to a Classic FAST / DFI.



All computers arent equal?? Well neither are chassis/rear/suspension etc etc... I think its a well known fact that a Fox Body chassis can haul ass with pretty much ANY engine combination.. Unfortunately we cant say the same for Vettes/Hemis/F cars etc etc.... BTW, the largest injector you can run on an LS ECM without a converter box is 75 lb/hr hi imp ;)
askennedy User is Offline
Posts:204



01/02/2009 2:52 PM Alert 
Posted By Ron@Vengeance on 01/02/2009 1:57 PM
Posted By askennedy on 01/02/2009 12:19 PM
Posted By t berry on 01/02/2009 12:15 PM
Guys i aint the smartest person on the stock ecm but that rule is there for a reason it will be the one of the factors that keeps this class in line and give the average street car a place to race.


Todd,

The problem is that all computer are not equal. You can do things with the LS1 and EEC5 computers that cant be done with the LT1, EEC4 and Turbo Buick computers.

Its like comparing the latest Generation BS3 / XFI to a Classic FAST / DFI.

[/quote]

All computers arent equal?? Well neither are chassis/rear/suspension etc etc... I think its a well known fact that a Fox Body chassis can haul ass with pretty much ANY engine combination.. Unfortunately we cant say the same for Vettes/Hemis/F cars etc etc.... BTW, the largest injector you can run on an LS ECM without a converter box is 75 lb/hr hi imp ;)
The 75 is the largest the Ford can run also without burning up the drivers. 
Unfortunetly I am not realy confident that the 75 can be tuned very well with the EEC4 Computer.  The 83# will be out there in a few weeks and they will be able to run it as long as the Tuners can get the tunes right.

Maybe you should consider Hi Imp only injectors instead of the stock computers.
askennedy User is Offline
Posts:204



01/02/2009 2:59 PM Alert 
Posted By t berry on 01/02/2009 1:51 PM
ASKENNEDY just how fast is your car i see where you want to run modified street and that class is going 5.40 to 5.50 every pass this is the main reason it will be stock computers. This class is gonna be in the low to mid 6 sec, range so most street cars can compete not just a few.


Todd,

That question was asked to give the car a place to race and help to improve car count in MS.

The car isnt built. I am building it for my Son. I felt it would be capable of 5.90's with good weather and traction.

I find it very hard to beleive that there wont be several cars in the 5's with 400+ ci's and 300+ hp of nitrous or a 76mm turbo.

ThomasB User is Offline
Posts:87



01/02/2009 3:01 PM Alert 
Still the issue of full cage certified and NHRA license to run low 6's. Is thsi rule going to be inforced or can anything run without a cage? If a car goes 6.39 or faster will they be allowed to finish the race or will they be automatically disqualified due to safety? Not many true street cars that fits this class will have any safety items. This not only posses a problem for the racers but also anyone around.
t berry User is Offline
Posts:1002



01/02/2009 3:01 PM Alert 
Posted By askennedy on 01/02/2009 2:52 PM
Posted By Ron@Vengeance on 01/02/2009 1:57 PM
Posted By askennedy on 01/02/2009 12:19 PM
Posted By t berry on 01/02/2009 12:15 PM
Guys i aint the smartest person on the stock ecm but that rule is there for a reason it will be the one of the factors that keeps this class in line and give the average street car a place to race.


Todd,

The problem is that all computer are not equal. You can do things with the LS1 and EEC5 computers that cant be done with the LT1, EEC4 and Turbo Buick computers.

Its like comparing the latest Generation BS3 / XFI to a Classic FAST / DFI.

[/quote]

All computers arent equal?? Well neither are chassis/rear/suspension etc etc... I think its a well known fact that a Fox Body chassis can haul ass with pretty much ANY engine combination.. Unfortunately we cant say the same for Vettes/Hemis/F cars etc etc.... BTW, the largest injector you can run on an LS ECM without a converter box is 75 lb/hr hi imp ;)
The 75 is the largest the Ford can run also without burning up the drivers. 
Unfortunetly I am not realy confident that the 75 can be tuned very well with the EEC4 Computer.  The 83# will be out there in a few weeks and they will be able to run it as long as the Tuners can get the tunes right.

Maybe you should consider Hi Imp only injectors instead of the stock computers.
I have an 04 cobra with a stock computer and stock motor it has a 2.8h kenne bell with an inlet that i designed it made 760rwhp to the tires and has 60# injectors in it. I am in the process of putting the 75# or the new 81# injectors in it and i think it will make 800rwhp so these computers do a pretty good job if you can tune them.
My car will not race in this class but it would be competitive i think.


www.berrymotorsports.net
t berry User is Offline
Posts:1002



01/02/2009 3:06 PM Alert 
Posted By askennedy on 01/02/2009 2:59 PM
Posted By t berry on 01/02/2009 1:51 PM
ASKENNEDY just how fast is your car i see where you want to run modified street and that class is going 5.40 to 5.50 every pass this is the main reason it will be stock computers. This class is gonna be in the low to mid 6 sec, range so most street cars can compete not just a few.


Todd,

That question was asked to give the car a place to race and help to improve car count in MS.

The car isnt built. I am building it for my Son. I felt it would be capable of 5.90's with good weather and traction.

I find it very hard to beleive that there wont be several cars in the 5's with 400+ ci's and 300+ hp of nitrous or a 76mm turbo.


I got a feeling if you run a 5 second pass there will be some rule changes. This is supposed to be a mid 6 second field and i think ORSCA  will make sure it stays there.

www.berrymotorsports.net
Keith Berry User is Offline
Posts:315



01/02/2009 3:07 PM Alert 
Posted By ThomasB on 01/02/2009 3:01 PM
Still the issue of full cage certified and NHRA license to run low 6's. Is thsi rule going to be inforced or can anything run without a cage? If a car goes 6.39 or faster will they be allowed to finish the race or will they be automatically disqualified due to safety? Not many true street cars that fits this class will have any safety items. This not only posses a problem for the racers but also anyone around.


The rules clearly state under "SAFETY" that you must be within the 2009 NHRA guidelines.

BMF Motorsports

askennedy User is Offline
Posts:204



01/02/2009 3:16 PM Alert 
Posted By t berry on 01/02/2009 3:01 PM
Posted By askennedy on 01/02/2009 2:52 PM
Posted By Ron@Vengeance on 01/02/2009 1:57 PM
Posted By askennedy on 01/02/2009 12:19 PM
Posted By t berry on 01/02/2009 12:15 PM
 [/quote][/quote]I have an 04 cobra with a stock computer and stock motor it has a 2.8h kenne bell with an inlet that i designed it made 760rwhp to the tires and has 60# injectors in it. I am in the process of putting the 75# or the new 81# injectors in it and i think it will make 800rwhp so these computers do a pretty good job if you can tune them.
My car will not race in this class but it would be competitive i think.



Todd,
The computer in your 03 Cobra is light years ahead of those in a Fox body or LT1.
More parameters to tune, better resolution of air metering, and with the right tuner, like the LS1, traction control
t berry User is Offline
Posts:1002



01/02/2009 3:37 PM Alert 
Posted By askennedy on 01/02/2009 3:16 PM
Posted By t berry on 01/02/2009 3:01 PM
Posted By askennedy on 01/02/2009 2:52 PM
Posted By Ron@Vengeance on 01/02/2009 1:57 PM
Posted By askennedy on 01/02/2009 12:19 PM
Posted By t berry on 01/02/2009 12:15 PM
 [/quote][/quote]I have an 04 cobra with a stock computer and stock motor it has a 2.8h kenne bell with an inlet that i designed it made 760rwhp to the tires and has 60# injectors in it. I am in the process of putting the 75# or the new 81# injectors in it and i think it will make 800rwhp so these computers do a pretty good job if you can tune them.
My car will not race in this class but it would be competitive i think.



Todd,
The computer in your 03 Cobra is light years ahead of those in a Fox body or LT1.
More parameters to tune, better resolution of air metering, and with the right tuner, like the LS1, traction control

Why cant you use a later model computer in the fox body or ls1.

www.berrymotorsports.net
Ron@Vengeance User is Offline
Posts:86



01/02/2009 3:41 PM Alert 
Posted By t berry on 01/02/2009 3:37 PM
Posted By askennedy on 01/02/2009 3:16 PM
Posted By t berry on 01/02/2009 3:01 PM
Posted By askennedy on 01/02/2009 2:52 PM
Posted By Ron@Vengeance on 01/02/2009 1:57 PM
Posted By askennedy on 01/02/2009 12:19 PM
Posted By t berry on 01/02/2009 12:15 PM
 [/quote][/quote]I have an 04 cobra with a stock computer and stock motor it has a 2.8h kenne bell with an inlet that i designed it made 760rwhp to the tires and has 60# injectors in it. I am in the process of putting the 75# or the new 81# injectors in it and i think it will make 800rwhp so these computers do a pretty good job if you can tune them.
My car will not race in this class but it would be competitive i think.

[/quote]

[/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote]Todd,
The computer in your 03 Cobra is light years ahead of those in a Fox body or LT1.
More parameters to tune, better resolution of air metering, and with the right tuner, like the LS1, traction control[/quote]
Why cant you use a later model computer in the fox body or ls1.

Or a later model car for that matter
askennedy User is Offline
Posts:204



01/02/2009 3:44 PM Alert 
Posted By t berry on 01/02/2009 12:15 PM
 [/quote][/quote]I have an 04 cobra with a stock computer and stock motor it has a 2.8h kenne bell with an inlet that i designed it made 760rwhp to the tires and has 60# injectors in it. I am in the process of putting the 75# or the new 81# injectors in it and i think it will make 800rwhp so these computers do a pretty good job if you can tune them.
My car will not race in this class but it would be competitive i think.

[/quote]

[/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote]Todd,
The computer in your 03 Cobra is light years ahead of those in a Fox body or LT1.
More parameters to tune, better resolution of air metering, and with the right tuner, like the LS1, traction control[/quote]
Why cant you use a later model computer in the fox body or ls1.




It hasnt been said wether this is legal or not.

Also it is not as simple as pluggin in a computer. Complete wiring harness would have to be swapped, with the Ford you have to figure out a way to provide the crank siginal. The EEC5 does not run a distributor. These are not a simple swap and its not cheap to buy new computer, and harnesses from Ford, as I am not going to use a harness that has been pulled out of a wreck or otherwise.

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